Now i finally got it....-.- It was a long time i made the lineart to it...*sigh*
But the only thing i can say is >> WHO SPEND ME A GT????? I need one of it...-.- MY MOUSE SUCKS!!!!! *grrrrr*
The roses were the most heavily part on it...-.-
And yes yes i know..MA looks like an angel (she never was) but what should i do.... as you know it a artwork to my manga in in there she looks like everyone else like they all do in Lasy Oscar/Rose of Versailles.....*sigh again* I STILL "HATE" HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >.<
Well I just adopted the style of the Anime-series of Lady Oscar, thats all. The real MA wasn't a real queen, cause she was selfish, a terrible queen, mother, wife and she wasn't that pretty. Her crown made her pretty and her position. Her dresses and everything, cause do you think someone would tell her - Oh damn you are so ugly? - of the nobles who needed her for their own advantages and the folk almost never saw her that close to judge good enough... I hate this person that much you can't imagine... -.- I loved her at the beginning of my studies, but the more I learned the more I hated her and switched to the site of the king. So I hope you don't mind my answer now but she is like red rag for me. But thanks for your comment anyway
Well it's a beautiful drawing, regardless of what style you adapted. The roses are probably my favorite part ^^ And, might I ask, why do you think Marie Antoinette was such a terrible person? Certainly, she wasn't the best queen - after all, she spent a lot of money when most of France couldn't afford bread - but she was hardly so bad in regards to loving her family and her husband. After all, if she didn't, she wouldn't have stood by him while the revolution raged on! Plus, if I have to say, I do think she's pretty, if anything, in regards to the time period she lived in. She had blonde hair, blue eyes, fair skin...basically, she was petite and feminine, like most highly regarded women were back then, but that's just what I believe :3
And no problem ^^ I can respect peoples' different opinions in regards to history. It's a very nice drawing, even still
Yes I like the roses for most too. And yes sure. Cause of my history-studies I'm in since some years..^^" she betrayed the king in their marriage with Fersen? she lied to the king, used him for money to cheery up her sooo boring selfish life with parties and senseless activities like her Hamlet with which she also blamed her folk again. To humbled the king e.g with the still beloved rumor of his never existed phimosis (which Stefan Zweig and Evelyne Lever still push/ed today)? She refused herself after 1773 to Louis, cause she didn´t wanted to lost her look of a young child-woman, which would be over when she get own children. She betrayed France with high treason during the revolutions thanks to the Manifest to the duke of Braunschweig. It was her, among other things, who decided the destiny of LouisXVI. and his children/sister. I loved her too at the beginning but then I realized the truth and I can´t anymore... Its quite the opposite. I simply can´t like her anymore.. its simply impossible for me. You know after I got so many documents in french/german and books,papers etc and after I, as said, realized what she really did to Louis XVI., to his children and to France... no way, sry. :/ Since I lost my "affection" for her, I also cannot understand anymore that people really thinks that she was a pretty/lovely/innocent woman/victim... I ask myself rather if other people are blind, prefer to live in these world of pink illusion or are they simply not able to read? :/ I mean I see it here in Germany... A lot of books you got in german are not correct but people trust in them, cause they are not able to read another lanuage, most of all no french, so they can´t know whats right, sadly. But even if one try to tell them its not right, they become insulting against your own person.... cause they won't listen and get their pink illusion being destroyed. They lost their arguments and try everything to keep their holy perfect innocent world...-.- That really sucks! She was like a plague for the royal family of France and most of all for the king and his folk. And people of today, still let fob themself up with lies and fairytales eg. from novels like Stefan Zweig, Antonia Fraser or Evelyne Lever... the best trio for to keep so many f*** illusions/lies to MA...-.- :/ Do you know Jean Christian Petitfils, P. et P. Girault de Coursac or Bernard Fay? The memoirs from Mme Royal (Louis' Daughter) (who didn´t like/loved her mother almost since she was 5 years old(with more than good reasons) or the dairy from Jean-Baptiste Cléry? For the point of still being at his site.. there is a simple explanation too.... I try to keep it short^^" She didn't do it cause she loved him or tried to help him, no sje knew perfectly that if she would have left him like her best friend, or his brothers, she would be death mist faster as she could have imagined! The folk hated her that much, I mean remember on the 5-6 Okt. when people wanted her on the balcony and wanted to shoot her there?! But with the king, who was still loved by his people, she got the perfect shield! So it was as long as Louis lived! Cause just after he wa killed they started to treat her very bad too. And I mean reaaally bad, to take her over to the Conciergerie and infront of the court to get her get her away as well. She also just cared about her son later. lil Louis Charles cause he was the next king and without him she was useless! He was also the only activity which was left in her life since she never saw Versailles again, her village and all her great parties. When they came into the Temple and had nothing other to do then to spend time their with her children and some needlework. About her Beauty, well of course its all a matte of taste. Sure but sadly she wasn't that great Beauty one could think of. Yes her skin was very bright, thats true, but e.g her most famous painter Élisabeth Vigée-Lebrun wrot in her dairy, that the queen wasn't that pretty cause she git this terrible large for-head, this awful big Habsburger-lips which were very un-pretty, tooo big eyes and a double-chin which wasn't pretty too. She was forced to paint her "more beautiful" as she actually was, just to keep the illusion of a queen, she in fact doesn't was anymore... Thats why one of the pictures with the rose got a hat on MA head. I find this picture is one of the most worst one... independent of that I find her ugly at all, but if one consider that fact, well then you can see that also such a picture isn't what it should be... And to be blond and blue-eyed, well... A lot of woman git those features, its nothing extraordinary Haha thanks
And yes also thanks e.g to such stupid movies like MA2006, which have so many history mistakes you almost can´t count anymore, people get blinded -.-
In regards to her relationship with Fersen, I don't believe it has been factually proven that she did or didn't have an affair. All I know is that, in regards to Louis, the further they got into their relationship, the better it went between them. Also, I didn't think it was MA's fault that they didn't have children for so long - in fact, she was pushing to have children, since the people of France would think that either he was incompetent or she was a harlot. As far as the French people, I doubt they would've liked her regardless of how kind she was - after all, the Hapsburgs weren't exactly friendly with France before...it'd be like the president of the US marrying a Russian girl during the cold war xD Furthermore, I still fail to see how she "betrayed France" any more than Louis did during the revolution o3o She sided with the monarchy, and frankly, one of few aspects that helped the counter revolution to defend the monarchy were her connections with the Austrian armed forces. With their marriage, it was probably plain that she wasn't too affectionate for him at first, considering that it was arranged outside of their control, but over time it was clear that she held him somewhere in her heart ^^ And I personally believed she loved her children as much as any other mother. You could see, when she was on trial to be guillotined for treason, and they almost suggested adding incest with her son to the list of her crimes, she drew the line. She wasn't about to hear that she had acted that way with the son she loved so dearly. Furthermore, I don't believe she needed her son because she'd be useless without him. Frankly, if she hadn't had a male heir, she would've been in power longer, sans the revolution! xD
Going back to her beauty, if it's true about what you said, she certainly wasn't the only one to request being painted more beautifully xD Even Elizabeth I of England has been on record of asking to be painted with a younger appearance, but people still considered her beautiful. And with the whole blonde-haired, blue-eyed thing, I know many people have it, but it was just a desirable trait that went along with the appearance of being fair back then ^^
As a matter of fact, I've never seen MA2006, but it does kind of look like a stupid move xD I agree completely - it's better for people not to skew the facts in one way due to an outside influence; what's there is there! And, while I personally don't support or denounce the greatness of Marie Antoinette, I do think you might be a little harsh on her. There are certainly worse things she could've done, after all ^^
Oh well it was or is kind of proven that they had. One of Fersen's lovers Mr Elizabeth Foster from England where he went to, wrote that he admitted it thats he got a affair to the queen since 1981. And its true. And there are much more proves... But its to much input to tell you all know... I mean I study it since almost 8 years. And I can tell you that the relationship of them was just "good" more or less for the first 2-3 years and more or less (in fact more less) when Louis got his children. Cause let me expain it.. We do know MA loved her mother (actually) more than anyone else of these world. But.... At the beginning she tried to please her no matter in which way, cause she knew how her mother would react if she wouldn't. She also didn´t boggled for to lie to her mother very often to make her position better than it actually was. Like she would control Louis or bring him to e.g read books, what was not true. Mercy always supported her with that together with Vermond. She also lied to her in the case of her "un-executed" marriage. Long before she wrote her a letter in 1777 that she is finally a "real woman". But then she become tired very quickly again to be with the king and was going back to her gambles. E.g when they stayed in Fontainebleau. Cause later its also Mercy who wrote to the empress that the queen isn´t honest and since the month of August returned to her games with the princess de Gueménée The queen lost always on the Hasard-games. Mercy wanted her to stop but MA ignore it and broke her promise of to do it (as so often) and lost on 25.10.1777 everything til the last Ecu. She didn´t care anymore of what her mother told her, cause she felt saved in her kingdom. Even the suggestions of her brother Joseph II and his memorandum she ignored after a while he left Versailles and after his visit (last day 31 May 1777). As I said... MA refused herself for Louis almost these famous 7 years they needed to have a child or rather after the first 3 years! She did everything for to get Louis away from her site and most of all from her bed! This funny things that "she" tried to coming close to him and tried to have sex (like they used to show in the terrible Coppola movie e.g) well... THAT wasn´t like they showed AND she tried just in her 2-3 years after she arrived in Versailles, cause her mother "watched" and control her all the time (with Vermond and Mercy). So you can say she did that cause she was forced... And Louis tried to make a real woman out of her in 1773 during their trip to Compiègne. BUT he didn´t arrived to complete his "job" cause of MA was very "tight" and he was very "strong". MA had an étroitesse du chemin - straitened vaginal canal. Another point is that >>> on 18. August 1777 after the Chronic of the personal doctor of the king and queen, it says that the »little difficult« (petite difficulté), was deleted between 10 and 11 o´clock in the morning, after the bath of the queen. With that the king was able to take his rights of an husband (ses droits d´époux) totally and finally. Cause the truth was, that Count de Mercy AND MA used that lie for to "protected" the queen of being the real guilty ones and maybe infertile. So of course it was the kings fault in everything and better to blame him than to blame her for to not lose her "innocent" name. So yes, I'm sry but I think you should think about your way of thinking about this point a bit You seems to see all of that in a very "innocent" way, with the eyes of today, don't misunderstood me now.. I don't mean it bad, but uts not that simple as you might think and also not that poor or sweet when it comes to MA.
Furthermore, I still fail to see how she "betrayed France" any more than Louis did during the revolution o3o She sided with the monarchy, and frankly, one of few aspects that helped the counter revolution to defend the monarchy were her connections with the Austrian armed forces. With their marriage, it was probably plain that she wasn't too affectionate for him at first, considering that it was arranged outside of their control, but over time it was clear that she held him somewhere in her heart ^^
The Manifest of the Duke of Braunschweig was just found long after the revolution was ended. It got missed some some very long year til now. This diciments shows clearly that she changed a letter which was send over Fersen to Braunschweig. Louis tried to explain the new situation during the war between France and Austria, but she mad it more strong cause she should make a kind of copy for the king and he trusted her (badly). She wrote harsh words which the Duke means to understand and threatened the Revolutionary very hard. But they thought it was the kings fault. But Louis couldn't say - Hey it was my wife. Cause everything she did, was his fault too. Also cause he couldn't prove it in that way. So he tried to write a second letter, but they didn't believed him anymore and stormed the Palais des Tuileries. She also didn't hold him in her heart. Before she died and in her last moment in court she was asked if she have something to say for the last time. And there she still blamed the king (like she used to do so so often, even though it was her mistake) that - "She was just the wife of Louis XVI. and that she just did what he wanted her to do" Also her daughter said one day, years after MA died - "This woman just bring us bad things. She never understood why she had to die." Sooo... I'm sry to destroy your imagination again^^""""
And I personally believed she loved her children as much as any other mother. You could see, when she was on trial to be guillotined for treason, and they almost suggested adding incest with her son to the list of her crimes, she drew the line. She wasn't about to hear that she had acted that way with the son she loved so dearly. Furthermore, I don't believe she needed her son because she'd be useless without him. Frankly, if she hadn't had a male heir, she would've been in power longer, sans the revolution! xD
Well I can show you many many other quotes and stuff where you can read that she didn't. I think myself that she surely "loved" her kids in a special way. Her own way, but not like a mother should do. The time in trail was a different one, but honestly what means almost 12month to many years where she didn't care about them? I mean believe what you want, I believe in facts and what I read myself in the archive of France etc. Original documents etc. I didn't like the point too, that the person I loved that much was such a "bitch". But well you have to face the facts, thats reality.XD
Oh well I think you didn't missed something in not watching that movie. Really.. its soo soo worse and whats more worse about it (except of what I wrote before is) that the "great Historian" Lady Fraser supports this movie in every way.. a real shame, if you ask me. -.-
I might be sound harsh about her, but after all these years, it simply sucks when I hear some special things and some wring things of whats people still used to believe, you know... I'm sick and tired about it, thats all. Cause they prefer to believe in the naive suggestions/interpretations instead of believing facts. :/ It would be the same if someone would say - well Hitler was actually a good man, cause hey he loved children. You simply can't do that. you know?^^""
See, there's where I get confused again with your arguments - you're comparing her to Hitler for heaven's sake! xD Was Marie Antoinette self-centered and naive? Absolutely. Did she kill 11 million people and start a world war? Of course not! There was no way she ever did anything so bad. She's obviously not perfect - far from it, in fact. But she hardly had reason to be considered THIS negatively :v Heck, we could do that with Louis, too! When he tried to escape France during the revolution, that's more than enough reason to say he "betrayed" his country, after all! What king would be so cowardly not to face his own people and come to an agreement? In fact, he was just as spoiled as Marie was when it came to being royal. He went out hunting and ate endlessly while the peasantry could hardly get by! Does this make him so terrible?
Now, I'm not against Louis XVI - he wasn't a great king, but he wasn't truly terrible - but I feel like it exemplifies how much opinions can weigh in on someone's decision. If I'm heavily in favor of America, I could say they "won" the war of 1812, despite the fact that, if one's capital is burned to the ground, it doesn't seem like a victory at all. It's all a matter of what facts someone takes and how they construe them, you know?
Also, I still fail to see how the Brunswick Manifesto has anything to do with how Marie Antoinette acted. The Brunswick Manifesto was issued by Charles William Ferdinand, saying that if the royal family was harmed, then revolutionaries would be harmed. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing this has to do with Marie Antoinette is that she's Austrian, and therefore there was a greater need for Austria and Prussia to put out this manifesto, being sure she was safe from harm. But, again, since they defended her, they were also defending Louis XVI. Every step the counter-revolutionary armies took defended the monarchy, regardless of what reason, defended Louis. How was Marie Antoinette doing badly if she tried to protect not only the monarchy, but her husband by extension? o3o
And, for the record, these facts I'm using aren't just "my imagination". I've also studied French history - certainly not for 8 years, but I do have some knowledge under my belt - and I know more than well what I'm talking about. I'm not siding with Marie Antoinette, in any means, but I'm surely not trying to condemn her to being looked upon so terribly
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`anmari has been spreading her infectious positivity throughout our community for over 6 years. Throughout this time Ana has been at the core of all things devious, passionately developing an eclectic gallery, helping organise devmeets, participating in chat events and also recently completed dedicating her time as a Community Volunteer. We are absolutely delighted to bestow the Deviousness Award for May 2013 to `anmari, congratulations! Read More